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	<title>Comments on: GM as God 4 . . . ish: More on the Land of Miracles</title>
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	<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/18/gm-as-god-4-ish-more-on-the-land-of-miracles/</link>
	<description>Writer&#124;Content Developer Malcolm Sheppard and Mob United Media</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/18/gm-as-god-4-ish-more-on-the-land-of-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-413</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=469#comment-413</guid>
		<description>Story structures seem to work for us because we&#039;re told this is how story structures work. Aristotle said so! They don&#039;t work the same way in other cultures, and they&#039;re transforming within our own. Even our analysis of stories is damaged by cultural mores. For a gaming example of this take a look at Robin Laws&#039; deconstruction of Hamlet, which shows that by certain criteria Hamlet doesn&#039;t really follow it -- and that&#039;s the play folks have pointed to as Shakespeare touching the universal.

But despite this strong bias, they still don&#039;t work to convey a sense of authenticity (not total authenticity, which is why there&#039;s no going to the bathroom in character outside of Nordic LARP). Using rules and character decisions as a stressor/challenge to a structure a GM sets up (which will tend to hit story marks) is extraordinarily effective and is why RPGs are worth doing. Otherwise, just collaborate on a novel or play instead of doing a halfassed job with some gimmicks at a convention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Story structures seem to work for us because we&#8217;re told this is how story structures work. Aristotle said so! They don&#8217;t work the same way in other cultures, and they&#8217;re transforming within our own. Even our analysis of stories is damaged by cultural mores. For a gaming example of this take a look at Robin Laws&#8217; deconstruction of Hamlet, which shows that by certain criteria Hamlet doesn&#8217;t really follow it &#8212; and that&#8217;s the play folks have pointed to as Shakespeare touching the universal.</p>
<p>But despite this strong bias, they still don&#8217;t work to convey a sense of authenticity (not total authenticity, which is why there&#8217;s no going to the bathroom in character outside of Nordic LARP). Using rules and character decisions as a stressor/challenge to a structure a GM sets up (which will tend to hit story marks) is extraordinarily effective and is why RPGs are worth doing. Otherwise, just collaborate on a novel or play instead of doing a halfassed job with some gimmicks at a convention.</p>
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		<title>By: JDCorley</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/18/gm-as-god-4-ish-more-on-the-land-of-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>JDCorley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=469#comment-409</guid>
		<description>I strongly disagree. First of all, the reason many story structures work is because they feel right - authentic - to the audience. 

Secondly, although structures can be both powerful and artificial, they are fundamentally just structures. The content of the story is where authenticity lies. The structure of the typical American sitcom is extremely artificial, even stylized, but people react as if it were authentic, &quot;real&quot;, because they are able to identify with the characters and the situation. The structure is a way of delivering the content.

In addition, I question the idea that RPGs spend a lot of time on structural questions. The only game I can think of that really has a strong structural component is With Great Power. Most RPGs have no structure to their narrative at all. Even the ridiculously oversimplified and tautological &quot;opening -&gt; problem -&gt; twist -&gt; climax -&gt; resolution&quot; structure is not even mentioned in many games.

Third, I question the justification for anti-story outcomes as being true to real life. As you say at the top of the article, it&#039;s not real life. Real life isn&#039;t like that.

All that said, I think you&#039;re quite on the mark in that a lot of roleplayers (GMs and players included) are a bit too concerned that a particular anti-story outcome will ruin the tale.  One reason people turn to RPGs instead of to TV or film is because they want to shake things up a bit. In this respect, a single instance of a NPC upstaging a PC or a blithering failure when the story structure would anticipate a success is really just more grist for the mill, a &quot;plot twist&quot; that is really nothing of the kind, but feels surprising and fresh.

I think your thought on attention ought be expanded a bit. One reason RPGers reach for story structure is that during the nothing&#039;s-happening part of games, the GM is often not paying much attention, and is making that clear to the players. If they go the wrong way at the junction and walk away from the dragon and/or the dungeon, and you give them a lot of &#039;nothing&#039;s happening&#039; stuff, it doesn&#039;t really encourage them to go back and go the way you want, it encourages them to pack up their stuff and end the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly disagree. First of all, the reason many story structures work is because they feel right &#8211; authentic &#8211; to the audience. </p>
<p>Secondly, although structures can be both powerful and artificial, they are fundamentally just structures. The content of the story is where authenticity lies. The structure of the typical American sitcom is extremely artificial, even stylized, but people react as if it were authentic, &#8220;real&#8221;, because they are able to identify with the characters and the situation. The structure is a way of delivering the content.</p>
<p>In addition, I question the idea that RPGs spend a lot of time on structural questions. The only game I can think of that really has a strong structural component is With Great Power. Most RPGs have no structure to their narrative at all. Even the ridiculously oversimplified and tautological &#8220;opening -&gt; problem -&gt; twist -&gt; climax -&gt; resolution&#8221; structure is not even mentioned in many games.</p>
<p>Third, I question the justification for anti-story outcomes as being true to real life. As you say at the top of the article, it&#8217;s not real life. Real life isn&#8217;t like that.</p>
<p>All that said, I think you&#8217;re quite on the mark in that a lot of roleplayers (GMs and players included) are a bit too concerned that a particular anti-story outcome will ruin the tale.  One reason people turn to RPGs instead of to TV or film is because they want to shake things up a bit. In this respect, a single instance of a NPC upstaging a PC or a blithering failure when the story structure would anticipate a success is really just more grist for the mill, a &#8220;plot twist&#8221; that is really nothing of the kind, but feels surprising and fresh.</p>
<p>I think your thought on attention ought be expanded a bit. One reason RPGers reach for story structure is that during the nothing&#8217;s-happening part of games, the GM is often not paying much attention, and is making that clear to the players. If they go the wrong way at the junction and walk away from the dragon and/or the dungeon, and you give them a lot of &#8216;nothing&#8217;s happening&#8217; stuff, it doesn&#8217;t really encourage them to go back and go the way you want, it encourages them to pack up their stuff and end the game.</p>
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