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	<title>Comments on: All Talk, No Rock, No Friends</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/</link>
	<description>Killing Someone Else&#039;s Darlings</description>
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		<title>By: Zzarchov</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator>Zzarchov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-769</guid>
		<description>I was responding to a post of yours that linked to this, about this same concept so I figured I&#039;d bring it up again.

Online/Offline is a false dichotomy.  There is no magic parallel world between online and offline.  If you think alot of online discourse isn&#039;t sincere, you need to take a closer look at the &quot;offline world&quot;.  Most discourse in insincere.   When you leave your job you leave your work friends (save the few who turn out to be real friends),  leave college and lose your college friends (same caveat as work), the same with highschool or childhood friends or any other criteria you set.  Most friends are not friends, never have been in history, and the Internet is just one more aspect of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was responding to a post of yours that linked to this, about this same concept so I figured I&#8217;d bring it up again.</p>
<p>Online/Offline is a false dichotomy.  There is no magic parallel world between online and offline.  If you think alot of online discourse isn&#8217;t sincere, you need to take a closer look at the &#8220;offline world&#8221;.  Most discourse in insincere.   When you leave your job you leave your work friends (save the few who turn out to be real friends),  leave college and lose your college friends (same caveat as work), the same with highschool or childhood friends or any other criteria you set.  Most friends are not friends, never have been in history, and the Internet is just one more aspect of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Friends Are Even Better Than That &#124; Mob &#124; United &#124; Malcolm &#124; Sheppard</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Friends Are Even Better Than That &#124; Mob &#124; United &#124; Malcolm &#124; Sheppard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-764</guid>
		<description>[...] in RPGs, why I emphasize it and what it’s doing to design and culture. I brought up how the decline of friendship might influence RPGs before, and linking to it is a good way to refresh the idea and remind everyone that this is a real [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in RPGs, why I emphasize it and what it’s doing to design and culture. I brought up how the decline of friendship might influence RPGs before, and linking to it is a good way to refresh the idea and remind everyone that this is a real [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JDCorley</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>JDCorley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-414</guid>
		<description>For the specific scenario you describe: work has been done, a game has been committed to, but &quot;actual play&quot; posts never materialize, or more likely, one or two are posted and then nothing, I think it&#039;s much more likely that the play is happening and not being posted about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the specific scenario you describe: work has been done, a game has been committed to, but &#8220;actual play&#8221; posts never materialize, or more likely, one or two are posted and then nothing, I think it&#8217;s much more likely that the play is happening and not being posted about.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-412</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-412</guid>
		<description>As I said above, talking about social trends means painting with a broad brush. But I strongly feel it&#039;s not just about keeping the friends you made during formative periods, but making new friends. Social erosion happens for reasons that are nobody&#039;s fault, but keeping up a certain level of socialization by meeting new people seems to be part of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I said above, talking about social trends means painting with a broad brush. But I strongly feel it&#8217;s not just about keeping the friends you made during formative periods, but making new friends. Social erosion happens for reasons that are nobody&#8217;s fault, but keeping up a certain level of socialization by meeting new people seems to be part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-411</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-411</guid>
		<description>Ask yourself: Which explanation fits better with regular complaints about how difficult it is to get a game together, keep a game going, or about how much you can&#039;t game because other games suck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask yourself: Which explanation fits better with regular complaints about how difficult it is to get a game together, keep a game going, or about how much you can&#8217;t game because other games suck?</p>
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		<title>By: JDCorley</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>JDCorley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-410</guid>
		<description>&quot;I see people plan stuff weeks, months in advance and commit to describing sessions — but the sessions never materialize.&quot;

Well, for me, the obviously conclusion would be that the play happened but they never wrote them up in posts. I know that sometimes I have the intention of writing up play in posts or on websites or what have you, and sometimes I get really into it and do it but if my time gets short, it&#039;s not the play that suffers, but my desire to post about it online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see people plan stuff weeks, months in advance and commit to describing sessions — but the sessions never materialize.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, for me, the obviously conclusion would be that the play happened but they never wrote them up in posts. I know that sometimes I have the intention of writing up play in posts or on websites or what have you, and sometimes I get really into it and do it but if my time gets short, it&#8217;s not the play that suffers, but my desire to post about it online.</p>
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		<title>By: wickedmurph</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>wickedmurph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-408</guid>
		<description>I disagree with you.  Straight out, my experiences directly contradict your theories.  I got my gaming group back together - over Maptools and Skype, admittedly, but hey, we live continents apart now.

I take the time to organize, prep and run a game, and I do it despite the fact that I have a new baby and a number of close friends, who take up a portion of my time.  I do it because the gaming group is made up of my close friends, friends that I cultivated over years of mostly gaming.

If there is a decline in friendship, it&#039;s because we choose it - by being too lazy or self-absorbed to do the work that ongoing friendships require.  But gaming has always, in my experience, been a place where friends are made and kept, far more so than almost any other activity, barring competitive sports.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with you.  Straight out, my experiences directly contradict your theories.  I got my gaming group back together &#8211; over Maptools and Skype, admittedly, but hey, we live continents apart now.</p>
<p>I take the time to organize, prep and run a game, and I do it despite the fact that I have a new baby and a number of close friends, who take up a portion of my time.  I do it because the gaming group is made up of my close friends, friends that I cultivated over years of mostly gaming.</p>
<p>If there is a decline in friendship, it&#8217;s because we choose it &#8211; by being too lazy or self-absorbed to do the work that ongoing friendships require.  But gaming has always, in my experience, been a place where friends are made and kept, far more so than almost any other activity, barring competitive sports.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-407</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I broadly agree, except where you assert that game rules have shifted to match. Every “classic” game I read seems to drip with socially-backwards hazing rituals and dominance games (to say nothing of endless bean-counting, and lets not forget racism and misogyny). I think it’s fine that you’re applying your values (I also don’t like cultivating a large number of shallow relationships), but you may also be applying your perception of a real problem (or two) of design more broadly than it actually obtends.&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe. I think there&#039;s a great lack of empathy in the scene right now, and many designs seem to assume no responsibility to be empathetic.

I think &quot;hazing&quot; is real in RPG culture, but not necessarily in texts, which were designed by scenes who&#039;d finished the actual hazing. You&#039;re absolutely right that friendship doesn&#039;t eliminate pervasive social problems -- but you will *never* solve those problems without it. Why should somebody care about sexism in RPGs (for example) when they don&#039;t really give a shit about the ppeople they play with at all except as instruments for self-gratification?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I broadly agree, except where you assert that game rules have shifted to match. Every “classic” game I read seems to drip with socially-backwards hazing rituals and dominance games (to say nothing of endless bean-counting, and lets not forget racism and misogyny). I think it’s fine that you’re applying your values (I also don’t like cultivating a large number of shallow relationships), but you may also be applying your perception of a real problem (or two) of design more broadly than it actually obtends.</i></p>
<p>Maybe. I think there&#8217;s a great lack of empathy in the scene right now, and many designs seem to assume no responsibility to be empathetic.</p>
<p>I think &#8220;hazing&#8221; is real in RPG culture, but not necessarily in texts, which were designed by scenes who&#8217;d finished the actual hazing. You&#8217;re absolutely right that friendship doesn&#8217;t eliminate pervasive social problems &#8212; but you will *never* solve those problems without it. Why should somebody care about sexism in RPGs (for example) when they don&#8217;t really give a shit about the ppeople they play with at all except as instruments for self-gratification?</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-406</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve started some fantastic, deep friendships online, but the medium matters. Fishbowl public lifestreaming is not something I think promotes an involved meeting of the minds.

A lot of online discourse is sincere, but a lot more of it isn&#039;t. There are deep rooted reasons for this that can&#039;t be waved away as semantics. We are tuned to understand people through a series of cues that are not all transmitted through common online media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve started some fantastic, deep friendships online, but the medium matters. Fishbowl public lifestreaming is not something I think promotes an involved meeting of the minds.</p>
<p>A lot of online discourse is sincere, but a lot more of it isn&#8217;t. There are deep rooted reasons for this that can&#8217;t be waved away as semantics. We are tuned to understand people through a series of cues that are not all transmitted through common online media.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/2009/10/19/rpgs-decline-of-friendshi/comment-page-1/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mobunited.com/mobunitedmedia/?p=471#comment-405</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;People play all the time. I know at least a dozen gamers at my school who game regularly and have no idea gaming blogs even exist.&lt;/i&gt;

Any broad examination is going to catch outliers. In any event, I do think there&#039;s a bigger chunk of gamers who don&#039;t game much/at all (as opposed to people who&#039;ve turned their back on gaming completely) now than there has been before.

&lt;i&gt;People who write gaming blogs also game, and plenty of them don’t talk about it in their blogs because at least one survey had shown people find it boring. I think many of us instinctively knew this before the survey was out.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not just talking about gaming blogs. In multiple online mediam descriptions of playing (or not playing) when they do appear are telling. I see people plan stuff weeks, months in advance and commit to describing sessions -- but the sessions never materialize. Plus, RPG bloggers do blog about play a whole lot. I think I may be exceptional in *not* talking about my house games much.

&lt;i&gt;The Geek Social Fallacies essay is interesting. I hadn’t seen it before; thanks for linking it. GSF1 makes things make a lot more sense to me. I see a lot of people complaining about problem gamers, and my response has always been, “So why do you game with them?” Now I get it.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s not without insight, but it&#039;s not evidence-backed psychology, either, and its presence as a meme is not largely destructive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>People play all the time. I know at least a dozen gamers at my school who game regularly and have no idea gaming blogs even exist.</i></p>
<p>Any broad examination is going to catch outliers. In any event, I do think there&#8217;s a bigger chunk of gamers who don&#8217;t game much/at all (as opposed to people who&#8217;ve turned their back on gaming completely) now than there has been before.</p>
<p><i>People who write gaming blogs also game, and plenty of them don’t talk about it in their blogs because at least one survey had shown people find it boring. I think many of us instinctively knew this before the survey was out.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not just talking about gaming blogs. In multiple online mediam descriptions of playing (or not playing) when they do appear are telling. I see people plan stuff weeks, months in advance and commit to describing sessions &#8212; but the sessions never materialize. Plus, RPG bloggers do blog about play a whole lot. I think I may be exceptional in *not* talking about my house games much.</p>
<p><i>The Geek Social Fallacies essay is interesting. I hadn’t seen it before; thanks for linking it. GSF1 makes things make a lot more sense to me. I see a lot of people complaining about problem gamers, and my response has always been, “So why do you game with them?” Now I get it.</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not without insight, but it&#8217;s not evidence-backed psychology, either, and its presence as a meme is not largely destructive.</p>
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